Something must be in the air because Kelly at Generation Cedar just got asked the same question I was asked recently concerning our inclinations in family size, Are you crazy? Only, she was asked by a pastor. Her post on the experience (and another similar encounter in which she was asked everybody’s favorite big family question: “Don’t you know what causes that?”) is a great read.
OK, here’s the thing. That question is as tired as jelly shoes and twist-a-beads. (You’ll only know what that is if you grew up in the 80’s.) If you feel the need to make a joke, could you come up with an original one? And one that isn’t so, well, embarrassing to yourself? And, if you’re a Christian, at least try to hide the fact that you don’t believe children are really a heritage from the Lord.
August 29th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
It’s hard to believe people (Christians especially) can be so rude and dumb! This used to make me insane. What do you say to such people?? And we wondering why we are loosing our families and having them gather unto themselves? Ugh. The godly Christians who have convictions about things are the ones having the big families, already. Why do we, in the body of Christ, need to be so rude to them? At least acknowledge them as having different convictions but treat them respectfully!! sigh..
August 31st, 2009 at 12:50 pm
I agree. I used to hate telling people I was from a big family because they always used to say “Wow, your parents sure must be BUSY” with that little twerpy nod (you know the one, I’m sure). I always wanted to answer that technically, if you’re giving birth every two years on schedule, you probably have less time for sex than the average woman, but I figured there was really no point.
Although, is it fair of me to say that I do sometimes ALSO get tired of being told it’s a “fact” that I can’t possibly “believe children are a heritage from the Lord” because I don’t have any? Also that the “godly Christians,” the only people with real “convictions,” are obviously the “ones having the big families.” I think it’s great when people have big families, I’m so glad my parents did, and I think your brood are amazing, but I just can’t go to the place where I believe large families are an automatic sign of godliness either…
August 31st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Okay, not to be crass or anything, but, I stopped the last woman that asked me that in her tracks by saying, “Yes. And, if it weren’t so much fun I wouldn’t have so many kids.” Another favorite of mine is the ever popular “You should get that fixed.” To which my last response was, “Well, it doesn’t appear to be broken.” I also found a creative answer to the oft asked question I would get about trying for a boy since all I have are girls. The last time I was pregnant and someone asked me that I told them no – I was trying for one with green eyes. Interestingly enough though, our last girl does have green eyes.
August 31st, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Sorry my above response was a gutteral response, rather than a well-thought out response–that’s what comes from blogging at night or after listening to my poor cousin get ridiculed (again) from expecting her third!
So, let me clarify. The families that have chosen to have big families are doing so out of a godly conviction, not because they do not have information about birth control. And I think I have stated in response to previous posts that lack of birth control is not what defines someone as godly. There are plenty of people without children who are godly also. It’s just a fact that we must acknowledge; and that is, it is very difficult to raise a big family and those who have taken it upon them (out of a godly conviction) do not need the added burden of persecution from people within the church. As far as those who have purposely chosen to not have children out of a godly conviction, I would like to know more about how they see things. I guess I’m new to this idea, but I’m open to trying to understand it!
Eating humble pie (so, what else is new?)
August 31st, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Kathy,
Thank you for weighing in! I can see that I didn’t quote enough of Kelly’s post to make it clear what she was saying. I don’t think she was criticizing people who don’t have a lot of children. She was lamenting people who berate those who do.
And you are totally right, large families are NOT in and of themselves a sign of godliness. It’s one thing that some people have a conviction about, like homeschooloing, or headcovering, or giving to charity. But godliness is not a checklist. It’s about walking with the Lord and obeying Him in all the things that HE has convicted us about. No one can be the Holy Spirit for another Christian. We can talk about our convictions, share our journeys with each other, debate theology and logic, but in the end, unless the Lord convicts us about something, doing it has nothing to do with godliness.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Dear Mrs P, I think you’ve been too understanding. The bible is actually pretty clear about charity, headcovering, being fruitful etc. We just choose not to do these things because we say ..oh that’s the context or well surely God will bless me if I have a big mortgage, work part-time so Pastors want me in my church because it helps pay their wages or maybe “I am so lucky having inherited or been helped out by parents that I can just stay at home and look smug, the pastor will still support me because I’m rich.Pastors are judged more harshly than the rest of us, if I went to a church and the pastor told me I was crazy I would just leave and stop paying his wage, church hopping is not a sin, Pastors need to realise they are accountable to their flock and give wise advice.Maybe kids make us poorer financially and of course that means less money in the church kitty but these kids grow up and become a real blessing. I don’t think that pastor was looking at the longterm consequences, for his own self either.From Linda
September 1st, 2009 at 1:12 pm
OM and Andrea, I definitely and heartily AGREE with your points about how out of place it is for Christians to berate those with large families. There is no excuse for crass joking, jibing, or criticizing folks for choosing to have a large family, and I apologize if I sounded that way.
The stronger our convictions are, the harder it is sometimes to see that other people might be convicted to make a different choice. The Bible is clear about charity (we should all do it), but not very clear about who or where or how much or when. And, I can’t really think of a time in which it would be ok for me to look over someone else’s shoulder and say, “wow, you don’t give to a Christian orphanage. Don’t you LOVE GOD? DON’T YOU LOVE CHILDREN?” That would be ridiculous.
I am hugely sorry that so many women are being belittled for their decisions to raise large families. However, I think we all have to be careful (myself very much included) that we don’t allow our hurts to make us defensive and equally belittling about people on the other side.
Coming from a community where large families are the norm, I have the good fortune to know that I will be the subject of disparaging remark no matter what I choose to do.
But the simple fact is that neither I nor my husband feel convicted to have a mega family. We feel convicted to be good parents, we feel convicted to be good stewards in all areas of our lives, we feel convicted to pursue the personal convictions, talents, and abilities God has given each of us, and we feel very happy and excited about the 2-4 children we hope to have some day. Frankly, I’m at a loss to discover how this is anyone else’s business or what would give anyone the right to snarp about how we do not believe the Bible or love children.
I think life isn’t quite so black and white, and to me it seems equally wrong to belittle a woman for having 10 children as it is to say superior things about the “ungodly” and rebellious attitudes of a woman who is choosing not to have all the children her body can produce.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Oops. I sound like a jerk with that ending. Let me hasten to add: I do not feel that either Mrs P. or the Organizing Mommy were saying “superior” things in either case. But, I have heard them from folks, just as you have all apparently heard very rude things about your family size.
I just meant to say: I think it’s important that NONE of us jump to conclusions about another person’s convictions or spiritual walk! I’m sorry when that happens to anybody on either side of the fence!
September 1st, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I’ve been a reader on this blog for quite a while now, but have never made a comment. I felt like I couldn’t pass up this post without saying that this particular subject is why I turned to the internet…in hope of finding like-minded families. My husband and I (at the ages of 20 and 21) married and were pregnant with our first three months later. You can imagine the “oops” and uh oh” comments and not to mention the raised eyebrows that we received. Getting married at “such a young age” (did I mention that we didn’t “date…I know, how crazy!) was something that we were always geting comments about. We had (have) absolutely no family support, on either side, and the fact that I stayed at home brought much well, anger from my husbands family. They were constantly mentioning businesses that were hiring, that sort of thing. We didn’t even announce our pregnancy until I was nearly showing! Fast forward to the present…our oldest little girl is 3 1/2, our middle daughter is 2, and our baby boy will turn 6 months this week. The comments are endless when we are in public because of the closeness in age. I don’t usually have a problem shrugging off the comments of loose jawed strangers…it doesn’t take much to realize that they have no filter, you no, the thing that should be in place between ones brain and mouth. It’s the comments from church folks and family members that hurt. The “breaking point” for me was about two months ago when my mother-in-law told me that “If ya’ll don’t stop mass producing like rabbits, you’re goona be the next Andrea Yates.” After googling her name to find out who she was I was absolutely devastated. I think it was about three days before I slept or ate much of anything. I was terrified to bathe my children…I couldn’t get the images out of my mind. I had to ask for much grace to keep from letting Satan have a hay-day with my thoughts. (I couldn’t even repeat the things that were said by her to my husband later that evening…she hasn’t spoke to us much since.) Our “lifestyle” is thought of as very strange by all of those around us, but it has no bearing on what goes on in our home. After all, we aren’t living our lives for them…our allegience is to the King, and His Kingdom….who cares what anyone else thinks! Having said that, we still wish so much for encouragement, especially me, as a “stay-at-home-starting-to-homeschool-want-to-have-as-many-little-BLESSINGS-as-He-gives” wife and mommy. Words do much MORE harm than “sticks and stones” ever could.
September 1st, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Kathy, I have seen and experienced what you are referring to–people trying to make you feel bad for having a smallish family. That is probably the same degree of “bad taste” as berating someone for having another baby. Both lack Christian love and charity. After all, if I love big families so much, why did I choose to not have any more after the fourth.. for like 7 years? And in my mind, four was plenty. It’s only by the grace of God and much time to heal that I could handle the fifth. So, I would never think to judge anyone who feels the quiver is full before the “mega family” emerged! Kathy, I wanted so much to be like your Mom! and have kids like you guys! But it was not to be! My family is smaller, less impressive, less educated, and pretty much average on whole. But I still have that admiration for the hard work that it took for your mama and others like her. I will never cease to be amazed at what a work of God all of you are! But I do not love God any less for having a smallish family. I am just celebrating those who do, does that make sense?
September 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 am
Dear Mrs P, you’ll be interested to know that my husband thinks alot of Paul is wise advice but in the context of the day and has to be compared with examples from the rest of scripture.We are able to have kids and we put them off far too long.Those who can have wonderful blessings should not feel guilty by the world’s standards it is wonderful to be fruitful, unfortunately many pastors are worldly in their thinking.For those women who can’t have many children , or no children at all , we firmly believe that once their households are in order(Prov 31 ) many women can do great things in the Lord’s work.It is a great thing to raise up children for the Lord if you are able, if only the church could stop trying to look prosperous financially wise and instead family wise-good marriage, well-behaved children and what finances you have in order it would put alot of pressure off people -especially those who would just love to have more kids but’can’t afford to”From Linda.
September 3rd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I happen to be on the flip side of this. My husband is a pastor who stands in front of a church that thinks we are crazy!
Anyway, thanks for the link, I have alreday really enjoyed her blog.
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:53 pm
My heart goes out to Charity. You are absolutely right, family (sometimes that means church family) can be the worst. I think the only two people who did not outright condem us for having more than the average number of children was my mom (who just loves her grandbabies), and my dad (who nearly always keeps his opinions to himself). All other family members had some kind of unwanted advice/comment/question to voice – my step-mother being one of the worst (she still makes comments to people about being glad that I finally stopped having children – and my youngest is 8!). And my mother-in-law has made a wide variety of disparaging remarks; including asking my husband if he was sure they were all his. PLEASE!! It’s very easy to get all caught up in what others say about us, but one of the tricks to dealing with it is this: Think very carefully about each person offering you unsolicited advice (or crude, intentionally harmful comments). See if you think their opinion is really all that important. Chances are, the ones being so rude are not the type of people you would run to for advice. If you do not have a particulary good opinion of the person berating you, then you should (try, very hard) not to care what they say about you. A good rule of thumb here, in my book, is that anyone who berates me automatically goes into my list of people I would never ask advice from; then I can instantly discard everything they say to, or about me. After all should we really take advice from someone who can’t even abide the age old “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.” rule? It falls under the same catagory as taking parenting advice from someone who has not sucessfully raised their kids – you just shouldn’t do it! By looking at how other people’s kids are currently behaving, or have turned out now that they are grown, or are nearly so, I have managed to discount almost all unsolicited parenting advice I have ever received. It makes life much simpler. After all, if they didn’t do such a hot job with their own, why would I want to do anything they suggest?
I know this can be difficult, but you can wear yourself to a frazzle worrying about the petty things other people say and do. Please know that you have answered a high and nobel calling, and that you will be (are) blessed. I pray that you will find the kind of support you most need.
September 4th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Rebecca…thank you for your kind words of encouragement, and advice. I certainly agree with you…berating family members or “friends” are certainly not the type folk that Christ would have us take instruction from, regardless of how much older or “experienced” they may be. From what I’ve read in the New Testament there should be “older” women encouraging me, and those like me, to continue, and rejoice, in our high calling. Sadly, I have yet to experience that within or out of the church.
I’m generally pretty unresponsive to family members, and depending what has been said, and who said it, my husband will “deal” with the issue. Not that I have to be a punching bag, but he feels like it is his place (especially when it comes to his mother) to handle the situation. The comments people make generally reveal more about their character than they may realize(and no, I’m not saying that you have bad/no character if you aren’t having lots of babies….I’m speaking of how people treat one another). The thing that has become “real” to us recently is that these are not the type people that we want influencing our children…and that is a sticky situation to say the least, when it concerns grandparents/aunts/uncles etc. I keep suggestion to my husband that we move across the country. (No, really, I’m not running, just…well, ok, maybe that would be running
But you can’t say it isn’t tempting!
September 4th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
As the one of the oldest in a large family, I would like to encourage Charity by saying that adhearing to her beliefs will hold her in good stead with her children. I have heard all those comments made to my parents, and knowing that my parents didn’t feel that way, and were able to take what others said calmly has really blessed me. It let me look up to my parents as people who followed God, and didn’t let the opinions of others sway them.
So when someone says something like that, just know that your children will probably respect you all the more for holding your ground.
September 4th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Oh, by the way, the website link on my name is actually my mom’s. I just used it (with her permission)!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I don’t get those comments – I only have 4 kids. But the “You’ve got your hands full.” comment sure gets old. Sometimes I want to say, “Yes! Would you like to lend me a hand here!”
September 6th, 2009 at 3:52 am
Dear Sara I lived in a town where the Pastor had 10 kids and half the town thought they were crazy-gossip spreads fast in a town. By the time those kids were twenty or so nobody thought they were crazy anymore. It was a learning curve for all of us and an eye opener to me.Dear Charity , I agree with Rebecca,I don’t get much support either and most people wouldthink I should just go back to work and so I was so relieved to read the latest article in Above Rubies about a struggling mum in Queensland who had her prayers answered. Sometimes Ijust think I’m too old and why am I having more kids.?Blogs like Mrs P’s give us that support praise God.From Linda
September 7th, 2009 at 6:16 am
That is soo funny in our church we believe in NO borth control, however several members “count the days” and one such is our minister. Its ridiculous how these days churches and christians are running alongside the world. We are meant to be separate so christians take the culture set by society and mend it to suit their beliefs. This minister came up and congratulated me on number 3, my eldest is 2 and a half, I answered “Yes we are really happy we want a big family”
September 7th, 2009 at 6:19 am
One more thing its socially acceptable for a 15 year old to have a baby but ohhh no forbid a family wanting more than 3. It drives me insane!
September 7th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
We have eight kids and have gotten many of the same comments. I expect them from unbelievers, but from fellow Christians it causes some concern. I think it comes down to a lot of people who claim the name of Christ being pretty selective with what they choose to believe in His Word (which is why we also homeschool and practice headcovering just to your north in Lansing!)
September 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Hello,
I just found your blog and I really enjoy reading it. This is completely off topic… but I’ve been married for 2 years and have been a stay-at-home wife for about 5 months. I admit that I’m a little bummed out. I’m having a difficult time creating a schedule. I read blogs about SAHW’s and they all seem fulfilled, happy, and have things to do all the time. I live in an apartment in a city so I can’t plant a garden or tend to farm animals. I don’t have any children yet. We can’t move out of the city because then my husband would have a very long commute and I don’t want that. I’m literally stuck and boggled down with questions from people like, \What do you do all day?\. I don’t know how to answer them and I feel like a failure at times. I live in a big city where 90% of the women work, the other 10% are SAHM’s. But when I talk to SAHM’s, they pretty much tell me what they do with their children, which I don’t have. I don’t even know what time to wake-up in the morning? Or what to do first thing in the morning? I know that this sounds \crazy\. Does anyone have any advice or guidance on how I could create a schedule? Have any ideas of what you do with your time? Thanks in advance. Blessings to you!
September 10th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Cherie,
I’m sending you the hugest hug! I know exactly how you feel. I was a stay at home wife for three years before our first child was born.
I would like to write a post in answer to your question, and maybe others will weigh in, too, in the comments section. Lord willing, I’ll be able to put something together in the next couple of weeks, and I’ll send you an e-mail when it goes up.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Wonderful article. By the way (and I had to say this just for fun)I was born in 92′ and I know very well what jelly shoes and twist-a-breads are! Maybe beccause I was home-schooled.
Okay, LOL.